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sig p320 accidental discharge 2021

The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Fair enough. Funny how that works. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. No picture for me. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? Dont care for them, not my jam. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! There were a lot of changes. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. is the manual safety a kit you add? Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Either the gun is defective or its not. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Anyway around here they do. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Too Many Accidents I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. The problem is non-existent. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. It has been flawless so far. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. I didnt even touch it! Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. The new Kirk does suck. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. 3. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. It was expensive. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. But Shatner? If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. Because its flat out bull**it. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. But breaking news here, skippy. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Great job, this threat needed some levity! And they would not have done that for no reason at all. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. No, it doesnt. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Canadian soldier. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. They admitted their problem and fixed it. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Im more of a DS9 guy. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. congrats. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! Would you? ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. How about something more relevant. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. Fine. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Thats fine. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. 00:03. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. He was told to shoot two rounds. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. He probably had a double until it was over. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Excellent work. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. . And thats just my opinion. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. (It wasnt my gun). Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? Thats SIGs term for a recall. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. The P320 pistol is a dog. Nope. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Give me a break. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. The new guy sucks. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. Yaaay! Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. . The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. I still own them all. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). . Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. He was told to shoot two rounds. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! 1:07. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. in Capitalvania. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Liberal, Conservative. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. The Hide Armory. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. Weird how that might happen. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? ALL OF THEM. 01:10. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. three changes to the original design. That could happen easily. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. No autographs, No self taken pictures. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. . The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. There was no holster involved. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Zero in the affirmative. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Mine is very accurate. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Period. The problem was strikers. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. how do I get one for my P320? A shame but then no one was hurt. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice.

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